Hump day rest day

Posted on April 29, 2009 by Allison Bojarski

UPCOMING ELEMENTS WORKSHOPS
In Manhattan:
#51 M/W/F @ 7:30pm, starts May 4th
#52 Tue/Thur @ 8:30pm, starts May 5th
#53 M/W/F @ 8:30pm, starts May 11th
#54 Tue/Thur @ 7am, May 12th
In Brooklyn:
#7 M/W/F @ 7pm starts May 11th
Wednesday 090429
Black Box Rest Day WOD:
Deadlift progressions (40 minutes). Both standard and single-leg deadlifts. Intensive positioning and corrections, including limited group evaluations. Emphasis on form over load. Warm-up and finisher to be determined by instructor.
Today’s Schedule:
6, 7, 8am: Instructor’s Choice
12:30pm: Instructor’s Choice
6pm: Black Box WOD or 7×1 Presses
6:30pm: Snatches/Pull-ups
7pm: Black Box WOD or 7×1 Presses
8pm: SDLHPs/ Dips
RESERVE YOUR SPOT AT THE CFE RUNNING SEMINAR (Saturday, May 9th) NOW!
Kurt and Martin drill POSE technique out at CFBK:

Strong is beautiful!
Inflammatory protection from swine flu
“We’ve created a perfect storm for viruses<"/a>
Intoxication
Public goat, private goat
Another vote for simplicity
What 99.9% of people will tell you and the FU neutralizing factor (via)
Newsflash: Coaching works!

juan

as rx’d iphone app
http://roboboogiestudios.com/portfolio/as-rxd/
10 bucks??
brian

Cfe running seminar May 9, from 9a to 3p. We will conduct 2 video analysis of your running techique before and after teaching and practcing the crossfit running technique.
Max

I was reading yesterdays comments about rom and I figured I would throw in my two cents. Firstly, this is crossfit and we are all gonna be competitive to an extent. Second if you see something wrong say something in a constructive fashion don’t just cackle about it. I will be the first to say that I am not always on point but that never detracts from my effort level. We are a communty and should act accordingly. Motivate your fellows, and everyone have a great day…..
Sara

Swimming at Chelsea today, 1:45 if anyone wants to join.
On form, rom, etc: I always appreciate being called out when I’m doing something wrong or am not doing full range of motion. Feel free to criticize me as much as you want!
Ewen

On ROM: I agree that not everyone necessarily needs to be harrassed about their ROM. If somebody is struggling with their last single reps of pushups from the knees, what is to be gained by telling them ‘You’re not going chest to the ground, you still have 20 reps to do’?
However, CFNYC has a pretty wide class of semifirebreathing athletes that compete against each other every day, whether they know/like it or not. For these people, I absolutely believe ROM should be checked and called out during the WOD. Too bad if feelings are hurt. If your fitness level allows you to do full ROM and you’re tearing through a WOD, you’re fair game for any qualified person standing around to keep your ROM honest. Personally, I welcome such remarks. Of course, outside of official competitions, I don’t think there is a need to do over reps unless they were extremely short. But a string of subpar reps should be reason enough for a small admonition and an encouragement to try harder.
What I find infinitely more frustrating than having my ROM criticized mid-wod (which, after all, I brought on myself) is glancing around between sets at an athlete of similar ability, my heart pounding, arms ready to fall off, and wanting to scream “CHEST TO THE DECK, MOTHERF*****!!!”.
The whole point of WOD classes is friendly competition, peer pressure, motivation, call it what you will. This is only possible if people are held to the same standards (scaling/subs notwithstanding). If this were a track club, would we allow people to cut corners just because they don’t want to be bothered during their 400m repeats? If you think your ROM is your own business, fine. Just don’t call out “Time” when you’re done. You will still have done a nice workout.
Alexei

Firstly, I want to apologize to everyone at the CFNYC for accidentally starting this whole ROM debate. I get the feel that it got started when Hari saw the last few pull ups of the “Fran’s uglier cousin” workout a couple of days ago. Which sucked (and I’ll be the first to admit that). There are reasons/excuses why they sucked (and personally I don’t think laziness was one of them), but they are just reasons/excuses. At the time I felt it did me more good to just knock them out the way they come out than rest/rechalk to do a fuller ROM at the sacrifice of overall intensity of workout.
And for the record and debate, the only “athlete” i’m semi-competing with is myself, and thus far I’m pretty happy with how I’m doing to be honest. Yeah, I can always do better, and I strive to do better (and I come out of every WOD and make a mental note about what I could have done better to have a faster time, higher load, etc.), but perfection is impossible.
As interesting as it is how far down the ladder my times/loads fall, it is much more interesting to me how I do compared to how I should do based on my history. I’m not a firebreather, I’m not going to the crossfit games for at least the next couple of years (and odds are well after that as well… ). Right now I’m trying to get the kipping motion down enough to do 4 pull ups consecutively without having to stop my motion on the bar, and get my grip adequate enough to do 50 pull ups without suffering major rips on my hands (because 8 holes makes pull ups so much fun!). So, while I do appreciate people telling me that I can go lower on my push ups or higher on my pull ups when I get to the higher reps, only thing I ask for is that you do so with consideration for my approximate skill level.
I also feel that I still have the right to call “time” at the end of a workout. Why wouldn’t I? Because the fact that my chin didn’t reach the bar on the last rep bothers you? Not all of us care to compete against EVERYONE at the gym. I know I’m going to do worse than most people here… can’t I just do the WOD in relative peace and see how I progress accordingly?
Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate all the advice that people give me. I do appreciate when I am told to get lower on my push ups, and higher on my pull ups, because often I do not realize that I’m not getting low/high enough, and it also motivates me to push myself harder. But prevent me from being able to find out how long I took to do the workout? Come on, give me a break. That’s getting past the border of helpful and approaching condescending…
About the article on swine flu – Inflammation won’t help you with this one. Most/a significant chunk (depending on which news source you follow) of the deaths have come from people with perfectly functional immune systems whose inflammatory response was triggered so hard that they literally ended up drowning themselves (fluids fill their lungs). Ironically, the people that have slightly recessed immune systems are safe from this one. So if you’re one of those people that never gets sick, I’d be worried.
KJ

Brian – I’m very interested in the CFE running seminar. Should I stay tuned for more info? I’ve been at the box for about a month and come from a running background, but i haven’t been able to join you guys for a workout yet. Seminar sounds like it would be a great introduction to cfe running.
Chris O

Brian – count me in for the cfe on May 9. looking forward to it
Sara

One more comment about the debate at hand:
I have had nothing but very positive experiences at crossfit. I think we have an incredibly knowledgeable and supportive coaching staff with nothing but our best interests in mind. I feel that they know how to judge peoples abilities very well, and know when and how to call us out when we aren’t pushing ourselves hard enough or could do something better. I’ve experienced the same thing from members. Therefore, I personally feel that we should trust their comments and not take any remarks personally or get upset when we’re being criticized as I feel it’s all meant in nothing but the best of ways.
Justin “Thor”

Alexei,
The issue isnt who you are competing with or against, the issue is with making yourself better. Doesnt matter if you’re in the games or by yourself, doing the moves half-assed isnt going to get you where, by your own admission, want to be. My biggest advice would be to scale. You’ve already said you arent competing with anyone, so why wouldnt you scale? If you insist on being intense and going for the fastest time possible, then you need to leave the ego, and use a band. If you want to do all the pull-ups without the band, then you are going to have to lose a little bit on the intensity and a quick time. Both are important, both will kick your ass, and I would say you need to try the workouts each way. But you will never get a quick time or stronger on pull-ups by cheating yourself out of the full range of motion.
Davi

Brian – I want in on the 9th too! I just have to figure it out re my teaching schedule…
Alexei

Justin,
I don’t use a band because I can do a bunch of kipping pull ups, and right now, I want to get better at doing several in a row which I feel will help me do bigger sets and also improve my ROM since inconsistency of kip (sometimes I go up, sometimes I go back…) is a major reason why, especially in the later sets, my ROM starts to falter. It’s not that I can’t do the pull ups, its that the ROM on them is inconsistent, and I feel that getting better at kipping will help with that.
In short, because, after having considered using a band, I think that doing kipping pull ups at this stage is more beneficial. I do use a band for other things though, such as ring dips.
Jeffrey B.

Brian,
Count me in on the running clinic on the 9th, y gracias.
dan def

Brian, please add me to the list of people attending the CFE seminar. Much thanks.
Ewen

Maybe it’s the lack of sleep, but I did come off a bit harsh. First off, let’s be clear that I’m not targetting anybody in particular, if for no other reason that I haven’t been at the Box in ages. These are general observations.
So, let me qualify two comments I made.
“If your fitness level allows you to do full ROM and you’re tearing through a WOD, you’re fair game for any qualified person standing around to keep your ROM honest.”
This should probably left to the athlete in question and the trainer in charge of the class. Each person should be clear in their own mind where they stand on intensity/scaling/ROM issues, and let the trainers know. Other people should probably mind their own business.
“If you think your ROM is your own business, fine. Just don’t call out “Time” when you’re done. You will still have done a nice workout.”
The problem here is that when different ROM standards are applied, nobody knows what “11:54 as Rx’d” means. Not the athlete him/erself, not the athletes that just did the WOD with him/her, not the coach, not the blog readers, not the people who walk in the gym and look at the whiteboard.
It’s fine to have different goals. It’s fine to want to just get through the workout however you can. I don’t see any big moral imperative here. But if you want to even be able to compare your own workouts from one time to the next, you’re going to need to have a detailed workout log at home. Because if you do want to know your time, you better know what that time is measuring.
One thing that may be overlooked in the Crossfit community is that it’s also fine not to care about the time at all (hell, other than safety, it’s fine not to care about anything if you ask me). If, for whatever reason, given your goals or the way you are performing the exercises, your time is mostly irrelevant, so be it. You’re still improving your fitness and hopefully having fun. What matters most is being honest with yourself and others when describing and evaluating your performance.
Rickke

I made up the squat snatch & pull-ups WOD this morning. 12:24
Subbed 45# & standard kipping pull-ups. I tried chest to bar and got about 2 and then switched to kipping chin above bar. After all this conversation about scaling to get full ROM, I think I should have used a band to do the chest to bar instead of scaling to standard kipping pull-ups.
This was a lot harder than I thought it would be, but it was great to get a lot of practice with the squat snatch. Thanks for the great coaching on form, Jacinto.
Rickke

Brian – I’m down for the CFE seminar on 5/9. Thanks for pulling this together.
Tony T.

Brian,
I’m in for the CFE seminar. Thanks!
Zach Singer

I don’t want to get too far into the fire of this debate, but I will do my best to make a few points, and to do so without completely offending anyone.
Scaling – Subbing:
Off the bat, I will say that I completely agree that we should all strive for virtuosity in movement and full ROM – and that in doing so, we should (probably more often than people do) view scaling not as sub-standard or less effective in producing our desired results. It gets demonized in the hyper-competitive nature of Crossfit, and I think that is a shame. There is nothing wrong with scaling — you should scale the workout if you can’t get the full ROM the whole time (after all, our measure for progress is power output, and if you only hit full ROM part of the time, you no longer know how much work you’ve done, and therefore cannot accurately measure your progress). I think this is important for all of us, regardless of with whom we are or are not competing. It may seem insignificant, but it is not uncommon to see your time actually increase in a workout due to the fact that you’re now doing full ROM. That can be sort of discouraging, in my opinion. Set a good standard for yourself now, and whatever scale you choose, do it full the entire time. Strive to hit this level of virtuosity for yourself as an athlete.
Moreover, I want to stress my firm belief that, and per the Crossfit philosophy, you will develop more as an athlete by scaling the movement (i.e. banded pullups, jumping pullups, less weight, etc.) and keeping the workout shorter. As Crossfitters, we sort of live in the lactic shuttle state that is the glycolytic pathway. This means shorter, high intensity workouts. It has been seen that this is where the greatest results can be garnered from the work done. What I herein suggest is that you consider the science of these findings — Angie, for example, is not meant to be a 40+ minute workout. Scale to the point that you can maintain both full ROM and full integrity of the purpose of the workout at hand. This ‘smart scaling’ will help you gain proficiency in the movements more quickly than slowly grinding out an Rx’d movement.
Comaradery:
I hardly see cause to disallow people from yelling “Time.” Such an act embodies part of the fun that is Crossfit. Being able to give the clock the proverbial finger – disallowing even one more second from detracting from your power output on that day. There’s something rewarding about it, and I think everyone should still yell it, and yell it loudly. If someone is scaling or you feel that there was something about the work they did that makes it less than comparable to you, then it is up to you to recognize that and not use it as a basis for your comparison. Crossfit is a beautiful convergence of people – different backgrounds, cultures, skill levels, interests, careers, goals, skill sets, etc. We all come in for the same reason, more or less, albeit it sometimes motivated by different means. We want to get more fit, and we want to have fun doing it. Crossfit is fun — we love it. Please do not take offense if I correct your ROM; I’m doing it for you and for the spirit of the gym. In war, you fight your best fight when you do so not for your loved ones at home or for your own skin, but rather for your brother in arms next to you. I think it is a similar feel in Crossfit — I walk in there everyday ready to lay everything I have on the floor, both to beat my own times and drive others to beat theirs and to improve. And to do so together in the spirit of a Crossfit that is fun – not embarassing, frustrating, or anything of the sort.
I think the world in general is too PC and overly sensitive – trust that when a fellow Crossfitter is correcting your form, it’s not because he wants to make you feel inadequate, but rather to drive you through compulsion, comaradery and sheer determination to push yourself to a new level and expect perfection of yourself.
Alexei, you note that perfection is impossible. This is no doubt true, but I sincerely believe that allowing this axiom to manifest in such a way that it drives you to accept something less than perfection is folly. For though you may know that perfection in true form cannot be attained, there is yet something inherently perfect about the undying pursuit of perfection and virtuosity. Still strive to achieve perfection, and though you never will, that is a sort of perfection of its own accord.
Okay – soap box and philosophy discourse ended here.
Hari

Sam,
“We wonder why there are so few girls at the Crossfit NYC, perhaps they don’t want to join a super competitive gym? Perhaps a lot are intimidated or just don’t like being called out on ROM.”
Bullshit. In my experience, the women at CrossFitNYC welcome the opportunity to be held to standards. They can be treated like pretty non competitive objects pretty much anywhere else. At CrossFitNYC (and most other affiliates), they can be taken seriously. And they can be called out on ROM.
The women I see coming into Black Box immediately take note of the women who maintain a standard of excellence; they point to members like Grace and Sophie; and they state firmly, “I want to be like that.”
Despite the assumption that my initial comments were motivated by a substandard performance by a man, much the opposite was true. On Sunday, Elizabeth outperformed three-quarters of the the gym, not because she did the WOD RX’d, but because what she did, she did absolutely right. Similarly, based on my observations, I have no doubt that Sophie’s chest hit the bar 45 times.
I also watched Craig drop of the bar twice during his final nine pull-ups, rather than just get by. Why? Because that’s what he needed to do in order to recover enough to continue with full ROM. Or maybe it’s because he was competing with Sophie.
juan

5K 23:48
notcool
Elizabeth

Re: range of motion etc.
Please be nice. I am just adding my perspective…
As a yoga instructor for 10 years I feel I have a little authority on the concept of range of motion. My job is to increase peoples range of motion. I have taught enough people over a long enough period of time to know that this takes time. Healthy range of motion is built in concert with strength. Additionally, there is some nervous system adaptation( growth, strenghtening? I am not an expert on this bit–forgive me) that is also needed. Again, this takes time.
How does this apply to the way we approach people who aren’t using full ROM? When I was learning to teach yoga my teacher used to say, ” teach people not poses.” In other words, look at the body in front of you.
A big stiff guys with tight shoulders who is in his first yoga class (or WOD) is going to need very different instruction than say a 20 something girl who is super bendy and has been at it forever.(sorry about the stereotypes)
On a personal note, I have ROM coming out my ass…I came to crossfit because I need to build strength and integrity in my body. It’s working! I am having a blast and I am getting stronger by the day. Pull-ups here I come! And as much as I hate every minute of it, I LOVE every minute even more.
Finally, Hari et al, give yourselves a little credit. I have always gotten or been able to get the instruction I need ( mostly..;). I don’t feel like I get away with things I shouldn’t.
There is a huge learning curve and I think leeway for ugliness helps people find their own way and really understand somatically what CFNY teaches intellectually.
You guys foster an environment where people strive for excellence because it’s part of the culture. I don’t think anyone is going to hang around CF for very long if they like doing things half-assed.
Kurt

Keith, a member out in Brooklyn and participant in next month’s Keys 100 mile run, is getting some picture love on CFE site: http://crossfitendurance.com/
chris p

Brian, count me in for the CFE seminar, cant wait!
Gabe K

It’s OK to be imperfect.
Davi

That’s sweet, Gabe.
Rory

Must. resist. urge to join debate…
I’m new enough to CF that I won’t weigh in with my opinion on ROM, but I think everyone involved in the debate might be interested in this (strongly worded) take on it from Mark Twight at Gym Jones:
http://www.gymjones.com/knowledge.php?id=20
Though I don’t agree with everything he says, I like that, at its core, his argument is about honesty and integrity. For him that means full range of motion, every rep, or it doesn’t count. For you it might mean something different, especially if your goals are not the same as his (i.e. training for elite sport performance). The key is being honest with yourself about what you are doing and why you are doing it.
I also like his definitions of proper ROM for various movements. There are some points in there that I have not yet seen mentioned here (e.g. elbows behind body’s centerline at the top of pullups).
Levi

Gabe, are you a student of Plato or Socrates?
Gabe K

Play-Doh
jacinto

for those of you that want to have fun there is ALWAYS
bally’s,ny sports club,gold’s gym. A crossfit gym is not a place for FUN.
http://allisonbojarski.tumblr.com Allison Bojarski

CFE SEMINAR LINK NOW LIVE, including full description of what will be covered:
http://clients.mindbodyonline.com/ws.asp?studioid=3573&stype=-8&sTG=23&sVT=14&sLoc=1&sTrn=100000020
Please register ASAP if you’re interested as there are only 20 slots and they will most likely go quickly.
This event is open to both members and non-members. If you have friends who might be interested who’ve never done crossfit, they’re more than welcome to sign up, too.
chad

preach it, jacinto.
i’ll expect nothing less than BRUTAL HONESTY during the deadlift training this evening.
Alexei

Jacinto, that depends entirely on your definition of “fun”.
chad

i think the thing we’re missing in this discussion is that if somebody is calling you out on something, at least it means they’re paying attention. and generally they’re neither wrong nor trying to be an asshole.
Max

I know this has brought out some heat. What I neglected to add this morning is that I personally welcome the comments. I come to crossfit b/c pushing it to the hard drives me…however sometimes when I am in it I am oblivous and wouldn’t mind someone hounding me about form. I can see that this is not an emotional subject to anyone….
Kirk

Not even interested in the debate.
Get it done and get it done right. That’s enough.
Speaking of which – EXCELLENT CFE this morning with Brian.
Many, many thanks to him for coming in even though he clearly had things to do and places to be… He trained us in his suit! I dearly wish Keith had managed to get a pic of Brian doing CFE movement drills in a suit & tie…
Brilliant drills and feedback on our running technique and fine points for improvement.
Anthony and I then ran 100m repeats:
10 x 100m with 2 min. rest between
Trick was we could not vary more than 2 seconds in out times or we were penalized with bottom-to-bottom Tabata squats…
Left my times in the office, but they ranged from 00:19:26 to 00:21:03. Happily…no Tabata for me.
Excellent workout though!
Thanks to Brian and Anthony.
JoeR

I’m confused. How does this ROM thing relate to being LOCKED IN?
http://allisonbojarski.tumblr.com Allison Bojarski, CFNYC

At the rate this debate’s been going, I think it’ll take at least 5 paragraphs to answer that question, JoeR.
George, care to help us out?
; )
Davi’s locked in

“He trained us in his suit! I dearly wish Keith had managed to get a pic of Brian doing CFE movement drills in a suit & tie…”
Hot!
Damn – I will have to try that workout. I may be the reigning queen of bat-outta-hell-to-molasses pacing and this would be a great way to find out.
Brett_nyc

Joe, depends on whether you’re doing a scaled LOCKED IN program or going fully LOCKED IN as rx’d. Not that one is better than the other. And remember to not get down on yourself if your rx’d LOCKED IN is different from someone else’s rx’d LOCKED IN because we all have different genetic potential in terms of LOCKED IN-EDNESS. Hope that helps.
Sara

Great workout with Jeff at Chelsea!
Swim:
500m warmup
50m, 100m, 150m, 200m, 150m, 100m, 50m with 20 sec rest between each
2x 25m underwater (mine were more like 20m!), 25m sprint
100m cool down
Then:
5 rounds for time:
6 135lb deadlift
6 85lb bench press
6 65lb hang clean
6 pullups
17:24 (I think)
Sara

PS: Jacinto, I totally agree! I can even recommend some trainers for people who want to have fun or want to do the same workout every day or want to do exercises with no regard to form or range of motion.
Brett_nyc

9:04 rx
ctb pullups were rough. snatch and PU wod
bad sam

Hari,
“Bullshit. In my experience, the women at CrossFitNYC welcome the opportunity to be held to standards. They can be treated like pretty non competitive objects pretty much anywhere else. At CrossFitNYC (and most other affiliates), they can be taken seriously. And they can be called out on ROM.”
Not every woman or man is the same Hari. Some people are competitive, some people are not. Some people enjoy being called out and shouted at, some do not.
I’m not just pulling this randomly out of thin air, i’m going on actual conversations i’ve had with male AND female Crossfitters. Just because someone walks in the front door of Crossfit NYC, it doesn’t mean that they want to get shouted at.
It’s a fact that CFNYC has a larger ratio of men to women than other Crossfit gyms, it certainly isn’t for lack of women in NY though.
“The women I see coming into Black Box immediately take note of the women who maintain a standard of excellence; they point to members like Grace and Sophie; and they state firmly, “I want to be like that.”"
This may be true. But we may also be losing potential members who walk in, think it seems very strict, don’t want to be shouted at, and leave. There are always two sides to every story.
As for the comment about Crossfit not meant to be fun? I don’t understand this at all. If you do something that you don’t enjoy, and then you repeatedly do it, it makes you a pretty silly individual.
ie: If you come to Crossfit and keep coming back, it’s because you enjoy it, ergo it’s fun.
When I started Crossfit I didn’t come back because I wanted to get ripped or because my Vo2 max was improving, I came back because of the people and the relationships I formed and the camaraderie. I can swing a kettlebell or do pull-ups and push-ups anywhere, the Crossfitters and the atmosphere make the gym.
bad sam

FYI,
My posts are intended to promote discussion, I don’t know the 100% best way of promoting Crossfit or running a Crossfit Affiliated gym. I do understand however, that there are many different personalities involved and i’m trying to understand whether there is a way of pleasing them all, however foolhardy that may make me.
Hari,
As always, I enjoy our lively discussions, long may they continue.
Hari

Sam,
Of course every woman is not the same. We are not interested in every woman, every man, or every potential customer.
Nothing I have written suggests (and I certainly do not believe) that anyone should be yelled at. The choice is not between yelling at people and letting anything go. The choice is between having standards and not.
Hari

Sam,
I have no problem with your yelling at me and/or calling me out. (No doubt your having New York City withdrawal out there, and I’m glad to help.)
Of course you realize that your uncompromising standards in intellectual discourse is driving away potential CrossFit affiliate owners in New York City. Keep up the good work.
Hari

SDHP / Dip WOD:
32:19
(68,54), (15,13)
http://ptpower.com Bedros

Okay, this whole ROM stuff got me wondering. These days I spend a lot of time (about 6 hours a day) sitting and working on my computer.
I can tell that my ROM is suffering… however are there a set of exercises or stretches I should be doing to to counter my sitting for six hours a day behind the computer?