Location Change Announcement!

Posted on July 16, 2012 by Allison Bojarski

Effective Monday, July 16:

All weekday evening HR:00 WOD’s will be held at 28 Street:

Mon-Thurs 5:00 PM, 6:00 PM, 7:00 PM, 8:00 PM
Fri: 4:00 PM, 5:00 PM, 6:00 PM, 7:00 PM

During these hours, 26 Street will be open for Elements classes, and members are welcome to go over to use the showers.

With this change, the only WOD classes held at 26 Street will be:

Mon-Fri: 6:00 AM, 7:00 AM, 8:00 AM, 10:00 AM, 12:00 PM, 1:00 PM, 3:00 PM

We should have the floor at 28 Street completed by Monday and we expect that members will have more space and more equipment at 28 Street. In addition, this will accomplish our objective of having classes start every 15 minutes in the same location during our busiest evening hours.

Although we have called the HR:45 WOD’s “Intermediate” and the HR:00 “Advanced,” there is really no distinction. These are the same WOD’s.

  • Pingback: Intermediate & Advanced WODs: Monday 120716 | CrossFit NYC

  • Pingback: Beginner WODs: Monday 120716 | CrossFit NYC

  • mike r

    Will there eventually be showers at 28th st?

    • Jai Berg

      Yep. If I remember correctly, they’re the next priority after the floors are finished. Supposedly going to be more swank than Equinox. :)

      • Guest

        good because we pay MORE than equinox.

        • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

          I’m not sure that’s apples to apples. The lion’s share of your membership dollars go to paying our coaches; we think we’re more expensive than joining Equinox, but much less than hiring a trainer there.

          That said, we also know we’re asking people to spend a lot of money, and we need to make sure we’re delivering value for that spend.

          • Ryan

            that is a good point but how much one on one training do you get in a 20 person class that tip toeing around 2 other 20 person classes. The answer is zero.

          • Guest

            Agreed that is hardly personal training. Plus, it’s not like other gyms don’t have classes! But they all definitely have showers.

    • Hari Singh

      Work on the showers begins next. Until then, there are typically Elements running at 26 Street, and members are welcome to use the showers there.

      • Guest

        We were told that they would be in by June 1st a few months ago. Can we get an estimate on when exactly they will be done? We pay a lot of money, and we barely have working toilets.

  • Guest

    there was neither enough equipment, nor enough room tonight.

    • Hari Singh

      The biggest problem is bumper plates. We are waiting for Rogue to get in a shipment of the competition plates (same as the ones used at the Games). These plates take up significantly less storage space. We expect to receive a delivery this month.

      • mike n.

        reduce class size? its seems like they are already at capacity at night, how is reducing the size going to help anyone, members or owners?

        • Guest

          Agreed.
          What’s going to happen when all of these new Elements & beginner athletes move up? Reduce class size again, add more times which will lead to even more classes going on at once. I can see from a business perspecive it is a nice problem to have with all the new members and business, but at what point is it too much? I really enjoy the gym and the coaches here and I trust you guys will sort this out

      • Keka

        Hari,
        Perhaps it would make sense to hold off the evening classes move to 28th until (1) the bumper plates arrive from rogue, and new pull-up bars are installed; (2) excess equipment is cleared out from the floor.

        Yes, the pattern is familiar, but it sounds like without (1) and (2), things will not be able to be “straightened out”. (3) is another issue all together.

    • guest..

      I agree… i still think having the advance wod at 26 street is a better idea.

  • Mike

    Not a fan of the switch. Monday evening was pretty crowded. Couldn’t go up in weight during strength since there weren’t enough plates to go around. There just isn’t enough space at 28th to accommodate all of those classes at a given time. It got crowded to a point where it became pretty uncomfortable. Hopefully this switch isn’t permanent.

  • Steve Slo

    Do we have an expected date of completion for the showers? I use them mostly on the weekend, which makes our current arrangement problematic.

    • Hari Singh

      Showers are available at 26 Street for most of the day on Saturday. Check with Patrick at the Front Desk.

  • mike n.

    1) What
    are the 3rd and 4th floor being used for at 26th street? Consensus seems to be that the 4th
    floor is being used for “games prep”. What does that mean?

    • Sean M.

      Competitors class goes on twice a day, in the morning and in the evening, and each session lasts about 1.5hrs. Outside of that we aren’t occupying the space.

    • Avery W

      Mike N

      To be more specific: Competitors class meets three times per week for approximately 1.5 hours in the morning and night. We have occupied a corner in the morning at 28th street or shared the fourth floor with private training, two other elements classes, or a large intro class.

      The goal has always been to expand this class to more members interested in competing at an advanced level, but waiting until it is logistically possible – hopefully a few spots will open in the next months or so. The past two months have been a test run and the initial criteria for selection came from Open Results from last year and coaches’ recommendations.

      Any other specific questions you or anyone else has about the class please feel free to email me at averyATcrossfitnycDOTcom.

  • Guest

    Understandably, this is a business. But I have been “patient” with all of the changes for the last few months, and it seems you keep packing in people for money. The coaches are great. But, it sucks to know that retention is not your goal; high turn-over rates seem to be what you’re going for.

  • Adam H

    1) There were WAY too many people in the gym yesterday for bumper plate issues, pull-up bar and equipment placement, and a minimal amount of floor space addition to come anywhere close to solving that problem. I guess reducing class size helps, but from what I can tell every single class is maxed out AND has 3-5 people on the standby list. So instead of spreading out and keeping it comfortable we’d rather give the games team a floor of their own and make it even harder to get into classes?

    2) Even if you do somehow manage to fit all the people into the space that leaves no room whatsoever to work on something personal for a few minutes. I realize there are open gym times, but part of Crossfit is about improving things you suck at, and sometimes that takes a little extra practice. It’s a pretty big disincentive to really work on hand flexibility for front squats, clean form, or muscle-ups when you have to come back at a different time or go to another location just to get 5 minutes of practice in.

    3) The noise was also pretty bad. It was not easy to hear my coach and this had nothing to do with his volume and everything to do with the volume in the rest of the gym.

    4) Let’s take a look at the theoretical schedule of some guy named, let’s say, Joe. Joe gets out of work in midtown at 5:30 on a good, normal day. It takes him roughly 30 minutes to get down to 28th street depending on the trains or any other factor. One one of these days he shows up 5 minutes late because the train got stuck, or he got held up at work, or couldn’t find a spot to lock his bike on the street since there are no places to do so on 28th street, or both elevators were on the 116th floor when he walked in the lobby. Now he walks in to find that his name has been replaced with one of the 5 “standbys”. So now Joe’s best option, as he is not a beginner, is to wait for the 6:45 class, where he’s not even guaranteed a spot, but must cross his fingers that someone from that class is a no show to take their place.

    One of the big draws of Crossfit is that it’s generally faster than going to a regular gym, you get there, warm up, and work out all in an hour. You know what’s not faster and far less convenient than that? Getting out of work at 5:35, getting the gym at 6:05, milling around (since there’s no room to do anything on your own) until 6:45, and then leaving for home at 7:45.

    Having classes run every 15 minutes is a great idea, IF they’re all the same classes. Having a 6:15 beginner’s class that people who’ve been at the gym for a year and don’t want to go to sort of kills the whole idea. And even if there were a class for a non-beginner every 15 minutes, it seems the only way to guarantee a spot for yourself is to sign up for every single class that you MIGHT end up getting there on time for.

    • Mike

      Amen

  • Guest

    It is becoming clear that you are more focused on a high-quantity turn-over rate and less on the retention of your long-time members.

  • Kimbo_leftinthedark

    Perhaps the owners could put together a blog post with the grand vision of how they see this whole transition working out. There are a number of members who have been scratching their heads since this transition started and at no time has there been any communication as to where we are headed. We get piecemeal posts with rule changes and time changes but no indication of what to expect in the future. Is 28th street with 10 classes an hour the model??? If so, thats cool (for some) would just like to know so can rejoin jack lalane.

    • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

      A great point. I just posted a long comment below, and will make sure we put that, and whatever additional stuff comes up in conversation, on the front page tomorrow. As per that comment, I’m more than happy to answer questions here or directly (josh@crossfitnyc.com).

  • Kimbo slice

    #isitjuly30thyet?

  • IntroGuest

    I took an Intro class recently at 28th St and loved it even though it seemed crowded with all the classes going on simultaneously. The coach mentioned that this box has doubled in size every six months (!) over the past two years – incredible, yes, but obviously that comes with drawbacks as well. He also stated that they would be opening two new locations in the next 3-4 months, one around the corner and one in UWS. Reading all these comments as I consider joining, if they continue to double in size at the current rate… won’t the overcrowding continue at the new locations once they open and continue to accept members, thus the cycle never ends?

  • ggirl299

    Unfortunately, many of the comments apply to morning and/or beginners classes too. Early morning beginners classes are many times up to capacity (same in the afternoon) and on occasion over capacity (21-22, even 24 ppl).
    As great as the trainers are it’s kinda hard to pay attention to classes that big and while I don’t expect 1-on-1 attention, but it would be nice to get cues more often. And…like someone else said…where am I supposed to practice skills to get better at them? Should I join equinox or similar?

  • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

    All-

    Last night was a complete and total shit-show. We shouldn’t have tried that switch on a Monday (our biggest night), and I should have been smarter about programming given the delay on additional pullup bars and on our previously-ordered additional bumper plates.

    So, first, my apologies. We screwed up.

    That said, last night’s disaster brought to the fore a bunch of totally reasonable questions and broader concerns. I wanted to answer a few of those, and I’m happy to clarify on other fronts, too, as helpful.

    1. First up, showers / construction / etc. In short, while we had planned on starting construction back in January, we ended up getting wildly delayed by NYC zoning-related bureaucracy. After a lot of time and money, and the assistance of our architects, contractor, and a team of zoning consultants, we *finally* got our Alt II permit approved. Last week. So, while it’s well behind when we had intended, we’re now starting the build in earnest – first the locker rooms, then the entrance, and then a slew of small but important things like sound-dampening ceiling tiles, wall-mounted clocks, etc. Obviously, this has been frustrating, but we’ve been at the mercy of the city on this one. Going forward, now that we finally have permits, you should see real progress starting right now.

    2. Second, growth vs. retention. We track both, very carefully. From the beginning, we’ve been extremely clear that retention trumps growth, whenever push comes to shove. The numbers back that. Every quarter since we started seven years ago in Central Park, our average membership duration has increased. We’re committed to making sure that keeps happening, even if it comes at a real cost to us. We’ve run at a loss for the majority of the history of this company (and at a bunch of recent stretches, too.) And we continue to personally invest hugely – getting 28th St going will run us 3/4 of a million bucks. While I enjoy the idea that we’re juicing growth so that the owners can swim through pools of money like Scrooge McDuck, I can assure you there are many, many better ways to get rich than starting a CrossFit box, especially in midtown Manhattan. Suffice it to say, while we’ve made (and continue to make) mistakes, our first and formost focus is on making sure we’re building a real community and providing for our current members. All of our changes are our best attempts in that direction.

    3. Obviously, some of those attempts work better than others. Here’s where growth goes wrong: when we don’t have enough space, equipment, or coaches to keep up. But, it turns out, that’s only part of the problem. The real challenge is figuring out the giant sudoku puzzle of resource allocation. In fact, over the last year, we’ve picked up space, equipment, and coaches faster than we’ve picked up new members, so there shouldn’t be a problem, at least in theory. However, as we’ve added new programs (like dividing into beginner and int./adv. WODs, and adding a competition team program), we’ve added to the complexity of making sure everything and everyone is in the best place to maximize our resources. Moving the 26th St WOD was an attempt to improve things on that front; it worked on paper, though not so much in real life. We’re going to spend the balance of the week seeing if we can make that move an actual improvement; if not, we’ll go back. Equally, we’ve added things like class caps, the sign-in / whiteboard process, etc., to make sure that people can get into reasonable-sized classes at the times that they want to work out. While, on balance, that’s actually worked very well (by the numbers, there are actually a very small number of people who get bumped each week), it could obviously still work much better, so we’re shortly testing out a new sign-up/sign-in system, dropping some Elements classes to add more WOD room and classes at peak times, etc.

    We know we could be doing better. But, if history is any indication, I think we may be able to pull it off. Sometimes, we don’t get it right, and “Kimbo slice” rears his anonymous head. But I think we’re a better gym than we were a year ago, and I think that, in turn, was a better gym than we ran a year further back.

    I apologize for stuff that sucks, and for where we’ve dropped the ball. We do, actually, want to hear about it, as your feedback is the main thing that drives our changes. (If you’d rather share things privately, I’m also always accessible at josh@crossfitnyc.com.)

    But, again, apologies for last night. We’re on it, and should be able to de-suckify ASAP.

    • Adam H

      While I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the switch works on paper, a lot of points have been made about things that don’t necessarily seem like they’ve been addressed. Can you comment on the following:

      * People interested in spending a few minutes working on weaknesses
      * Noise
      * Explanation of new signup process…and would this eliminate my theoretical example of Joe missing a class by 5 minutes and having to wait around for 30…and how would making classes smaller help with any scheduling issue other than the crowd?
      * Is the games team getting a whole floor for themselves?

      • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

        Sure:

        * People interested in spending a few minutes working on weaknesses

        At the moment, we don’t have a way to do that efficiently. Simply put, even five people working on their own weaknesses takes up the same amount of space as a twenty person WOD class. Currently, our priority is adding more WOD classes / times, and making sure they all have enough space. Once we get that figured out, however, we’ll do our best to address this next concern. That may entail adding a gap between one class and the next in a given space, which would give 15 minutes of pre- and post-class time to mobilize / practice. We’re still figuring that out, however, so i don’t want to promise something we can’t yet deliver.

        * Noise

        As I mentioned in the construction point in my first post, we’re adding acoustic ceiling tiles as part of the build. Unfortunately, we have to put in some other things (like walls, and the rest of the electrical system) first. But, yes, we know this is a big issue, and will be working to substantially reduce it through the build.

        * New sign-up process

        The sign-up improvement is meant to streamline things – so we don’t have people standing around waiting for roll call – and to improve the issues we’ve had with signing up for classes online. It’s a system called Wodify (which integrates class sign-up with WOD result tracking and a digital leaderboard), which we’ll begin beta testing in about a week, then will roll out more broadly as we’re sure it works.

        The wait example, however, is an inherent problem with adding class levels. If we have only one level of WOD, waits are at 15 minutes from one class to the next. In that case, however, we make even more people unhappy, because different people in the class have wildly different skill levels. I know, because that’s what we did previously.

        I think the solution, primarily, is to make sure that we have enough classes so that people don’t (or do only exceedingly rarely) get bumped to the next class. That’s what we’re working on. However, I think it’s also worth pointing out that the other Boxes in the city (or, really, most anywhere) don’t have classes more frequently than once an hour, don’t cap classes, and don’t have multiple class levels. So, by comparison, I think we’re actually doing pretty well on this front.

        * Is the games team getting a whole floor for themselves?

        This week, yes. Obviously, that’s less than ideal, which is one of the things we’re moving towards resolving with shifting class locations / generally rearranging.

        At the same time, we’ve under-supported our advanced CrossFit’ers / competitors in the past, and we want to make sure we really can and do provide top-notch coaching at every level.

        As ever, it’s a balancing act.

        Hope that helps.

        • Adam H

          So if the classes are all to be in the same spot, wouldn’t it make sense to space them 30 minutes apart so that if someone misses a class they don’t have to wait 45 for the next one in HOPES that they get in? Or if it’s better two have 2 classes going at at pretty much the same time and then a break, maybe a 5-10 minute grace period for the 6:00 class so someone doesn’t have to get caught in limbo like that?

          I realize other gyms don’t have as many classes as we run and generally run them on the hour. But they avoid waiting aspect of this situation by allowing people to 5 minutes late. Given the choice, I’d prefer the latter. Contrary to some beliefs out there, some people’s lives do not revolve around the Crossfit schedule

          • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

            We’re considering the 0:00 – 0:30 spacing, as well as other options. Flexibility on these issues are why we’ve moved WODs of the same level to the same spot.

    • http://www.facebook.com/leienming Andrew Louie

      Just a general comment about the site: It needs an update.

      There should be an announcements page – I’m afraid if I don’t check the blog one day, I’ll miss some important announcement and wont know I’ve missed it. announcements on the front page get buried pretty fast because you also have to post two wods a day.

      There should also be a policies page so people won’t get confused as to when there’s open gym or not, or what the late policy is. or when I can use the showers at 26th.

      Pie in the sky feature: Gym leader-board for benchmark workouts and 1RM O-Lifts and squats :)

      • Hari Singh

        The process is already under way.

      • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

        To Hari’s comment, we’re neck-deep in a general (and more readable) redesign, as well as the switch to the Wodify class management system, which also integrates robust logging, a giant digital leaderboard, etc.

    • long time member

      The gym is ABSOLUTELY NOT better than it was a year ago, and if you think anything at 28th compares to how the classes were run at 26th you’re kidding yourself. It’s all about how quickly you can take the elements classes money these days. I rarely see the same people twice!

  • Hari Singh

    I’d like to add a few points to Josh’s post.

    1) We should have a “grand scheme” post in the next 48 hours. As always, it will be subject to changes and updates.

    2) While I understand people’s instinct to speculate on our economic motivations, I think there are a few factors to be added to any arm-chair analysis: We are the lowest-priced CF around. If we were interested in profit maximization, we would just raise our prices. Clearly we can.

    If we raised our price to $299 per month, we would probably lose a bunch of members (immediately solving the crowding problem) and triple our bottom line. The reason we don’t do this is because we are interested in optimizing our member experience. We do this, because like you, we love CrossFit. As Josh mentioned, there are far easier ways for us to earn money.

    3) This is an ongoing process. We need to grow, so that we can fund better equipment, space, and top coaches. That means occasional flair-ups like we’re going through now. But it also means being able to facilities and programs that are second to none. We’re not there yet, but we’re heading there.

    4) Yesterday, the day after the CF Games ended, was a bit like New Year’s Day for in CF world. It is the day that a disproportionate number of people decide they are going to get serious about their training. Yesterday’s attendance was 25% higher than the same day four weeks earlier.

    4) As frustrating as this is, your should realized that we once went through far worse. Going from 200 member to 300 members was actually the most difficult time for us. The truth is that the bigger we get, the bigger the problems appear, but the faster the solutions get implemented.

    • kate

      Thanks so much for the information and for fielding question. I am one of those “dreaded newbies” … unfortunately, I guess we all had to start somewhere. My only concern is the size of the classes and that will cause me to hesitate. The cost is certainly justified if one looks at it as similarly personalized as a trainer or small group class.
      However, at 20 plus, its pushing the size and lack of attention as a gym roup exercise class, thus, not really justiffying the added cost.

  • Steve Slo

    Do you know what is, without a doubt, my ABSOLUTE favorite thing about this gym?
    …Just how responsive the ownership is to the concerns of it’s members. It’s actually one of my main focal points when people come to the front desk with inquiries about joining CFNYC.

    Josh and Hari, your long-form posts completely assuaged my anxiety about this transition. If I could make make one suggestion, it would be to keep us more frequently updated as to the status of the build-out and long-term vision. Because for the past few weeks (months?) it’s just been a lot of confusion and speculation. If I, as a part-time employee, am feeling clueless about the direction of the gym, then I can only imagine how a lot of the members must feel.

    But yes… Thanks guys. It is greatly appreciated.

    • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

      Great point.

  • Concerned Member

    Owners:

    Please look to the right and count the number of Elements classes currently being offered. About 30 in case you need help counting. There seems to be no sign of slowing things down here even though that’s one of the most logical steps in slowing down membership growth while things get smoothed out. How bad does it need to get before you’ll consider steps that may mean less profit from the Elements cash cow? Clearly pretty bad.

    A response would be appreciated.

    • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

      Sure.

      First, as I said before, I don’t believe the issue here is number of members; we have more equipment, space, and coach hours per member than we have at any point over the past two years. Therefore, we think we can quickly remedy things by getting the logistics right; that’s how we’ve solved similar growth-related issues when they’ve cropped up, about once a year for the past few years. If that weren’t the case, I’d agree throttling would make sense.

      Second, I appreciate your belief that Elements is a ‘cash cow’. However, because we cap Elements at six people, and then include free membership time after, we actually make less money on an Elements attendee than on a regular member. Maximizing Elements revenue at the cost of retaining members doesn’t pay off even if dollars are our only motivation.

      Third, each time we run into problems with growth, we get this same request: no new members. Parallel, I suppose, to what countries see in immigration – it’s usually the latest wave of arrivals that work most fervently to shut the door behind them, keeping out the next.

      If you’ve joined in the last two years, it’s due to our having found a way to make room for more members, despite calls to the contrary. I assume that you and the other people posting today are doing it because you care about CrossFit, otherwise you wouldn’t be taking the time. We care, too. That’s the real reason we’re growing: we want to share CrossFit with more people.

      As Hari points out, we could actually make much more money by upping rates to $299 a month; instead, we’ve kept our rates the lowest in NYC. We hope that means that more people will get to CrossFit, as you have. We know we need to make sure that the experience of our current members isn’t jeopardized as we try to include new ones, which is what we’ve been trying to accomplish, if not always getting it right.

      However, I don’t believe that Elements is the problem, nor do I think throttling it way back is the solution.

      • Concerned Member

        Thanks for your response Josh.

        Based on all your responses over the past day and throughout the numerous bumps of the past year’s rapid membership growth, I’ve concluded a few things:

        1) You’re excellent at making people feel like their concerns will be addressed. Your written and verbal damage control skills are top notch, especially when you’re smoothing things over after Hari goes on his inappropriate rampages at members.

        2) You’re so convincing that you actually believe the disingenuous crap you’re saying.

        After all these comments, it’s shocking that you *still* think the number of members is not a problem. Do you actually think these problems can be solved by adding more equipment or setting up the space more efficiently while not slowing down the membership growth?

        The icing on your full-of-shit cake:

        “we actually make less money on an Elements attendee than on a regular member.”

        An Elements member pays $300 x 6 people = $1800 for 6 total hours of coaching (3 sessions/week x 2 weeks). This means each participant is paying $50/class — meaning every hour, an Elements coach is bringing in $300 and using much less space and equipment. Let’s compare this to group classes. A member who comes 5x/week each month attends about 20 classes for $10/class. That means for a class of 20 people, every coach is bringing in about $200/hour using far more equipment and space. Yes, you give a few extra free classes for Elements grads, but this doesn’t come close to “making less money on Elements” especially since the free classes are not all utilized. Are you sure you don’t want a take-back on that one?

        “That’s the real reason we’re growing: we want to share CrossFit with more people.”

        I think the most useful thing for the owners to admit at this point is: you need to continue growing the membership at this rapid rate in order to pay for the costs of the enormous space expansion. This is why you’re repeatedly unwilling to slow down membership growth temporarily to ensure a smoother space transition and to think through a more deliberate growth strategy. Please stop making other excuses for why you think it’s totally acceptable to run sardine WODs. It’s not our business to know the financial position of the box. However, when your business decisions and poor management skills make the environment we’re paying for intolerable and unsafe, I think we’re owed more honest explanations.

        Sure, people stay because of the small handful coaches that actually know what they’re talking about (I don’t mean the ones that recently got a Level 1, which magically made them biomechanics and olympic lifting experts because they played with some PVC for 2 days). But, really, most people stick around because of the location. I imagine that’ll be changing when Reebok Crossfit 5th Ave. opens a few blocks away this month.

        I don’t think anyone thinks the owners are bad people who are trying to get rich from Crossfit. I do think you have made some poor business decisions that we are paying for.

  • ggirl299

    I know this isnt related….but when should a beginner switch to Intermediate/advanced classes?

    • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

      Awesome question, and one that deserves a full response on a less crazy day. :) We’ll post something within the week with some ‘level guidelines’, to give you a sense of when to hop out of the nest.

  • guest

    Bottom line… Stop accepting new members until you can accommodate the existing members who are paying and have been paying good money for their memberships (without complaint during the construction!)

    I know other CrossFit gyms both in NYC and in other areas, that do not accept new members because their business model simply doesn’t have the space for new members & they have stopped accepting new members until they can legitimately accommodate all members while maintaining the QUALITY and INTEGRITY of the sport. There are literally ‘waiting lists’ for memberships to these gyms. Black Box appears to have an open door policy. It’s just going to ruin the identity of the gym among members.

    It’s very easy to injure yourself during CrossFit.. either through lack of form or direction. Yesterday was a complete shit show and it is becoming quite clear that The Black Box’s motivation is to keep bringing in new members regardless of how the conditions have been deteriorating for existing members.

    There are other CrossFit gyms in the area.. many actually. I’m all for sticking around but if yesterday was even a slight indication of what may lie ahead for members of The Black Box.. I’m out.

  • david slifer

    Speaking of the competition team – are there tryouts or any sort of prerequisite?

    • http://www.joshuanewman.com Joshua Newman

      Thus far, it’s been kind of a test run. Aside from, of course, using up space and therefore indirectly spurring WWIII, I think it’s pretty clear by now that it’s been a great success. We’ll therefore shortly be slightly expanding the number of people in the program, and posting a formal path for people to fight their way into a spot. Look for that in the next week or two.

  • http://www.facebook.com/clancyjr Thomas Clancy Jr.

    Just got done with my 6pm WOD with Kevin at 28th street. While kevin is a great coach, but the crowding, noise, lack of equipment and showers at 28th street are absolutely unacceptable. If I wanted to work out on the subway platform, I would go do that. I wouldn’t pay 200 dollars a month for the privilege. An unlimited metrocard is only 100 bucks, and I could probably understand a homeless madman more than I can Kevin when the other coaches are shouting, weights are being thrown and FOUR classes of people are all howling in agony. Its freaking ridiculous. That space can handle three classes at BEST. One in each lane, with the window-lane for staged equipment and people waiting for their class to start.
    I normally go at lunchtime, so the 26th street spot is “my” box, and I can breathe there. Will, Avery and Ryan are amazing. The coaches are what keep me coming back, but the lack of respect for the membership in having us work out like cattle is just not sitting well. Maximize your investment, sure. Take advantage of the momentum of the Crossfit Craze, absolutely, but dammit, you have an opportunity to absolutely dominate this city for years to come with the coaches you have employed right now. In the next 12 months, there will be other great locations. Other great coaches. and the bubble will pop. Treat us like people and we’ll keep coming back (and even tell our friends). Treat us like sheep for fleecing and we’ll give you the finger and find another damned gym. I can pay Planet Fitness 10 bucks a month if i wanted to hate my gym. I could pay NYSC 100 a month and hate myself for being such a bougeious asshole. I could continue paying CrossFitNYC 200 a month and get people stepping on me as I’m struggling through a burpee, whipping me with jump ropes during double under practice as I try to return ab mats, and stand around with my thumb up my ass while 18 people try to practice skin the cat on four sets of rings.

    Now, I may sound like an asshole here, and I probably am. I’ve been told that a lot. But as a small business owner myself, I’ve found its the vocal asshole customers that have driven me to improve my business. I want you folks at CrossfitNYC to listen to the assholes. We’re the only ones who care. I’m not hiding behind anonymity. I’ll gladly sit and talk with you about it.

    • Ryan

      if the chaos that ensued last night between 6-8pm (at no fault to the coaches) continues, I will be heading to another gym. I can salvage a workout but how will anyone get better with movements and strength? 20 people per class is insane. HATE IT. Thanks for posting. I would have gone unspoken.

    • reisbaron

      Every single point you raise was addressed nine hours ago (see below). Does that mean the problems have been fixed since Noon? No. But please read before you post. If you’ll gladly sit and talk about it, then at least also take the time to read what the owners have already said. If you’re truly looking for a constructive dialog, start with processing what’s already been discussed.

      I happen to also care, but I don’t fancy myself an asshole. The only thing assholes care about is themselves.

      • mike n.

        Reis, The reason people are still posting repetitive stuff is because there has been an error made here and there has been no correction except a bunch of talk about what was done wrong and some future plans. The owners should have said, listen we made a mistake, we’re going to put stuff back the way it was and when we’re ready we’ll make the move. They weren’t ready, they admit that, and they won’t be ready tomorrow or the next day. Nobody cares or wants to hear about 10 people getting a space to use for 90 minutes 3 times a week to train for something when many more are suffering. That’s ridiculous and insulting for anyone paying $200 a month and even worse if they can’t get into a class because there is no room.

        So Reis, that’s why people are angry and why they will continue to post repetitive comments until things change. And also people post to express displeasure in numbers. If one person complains and 100 agree its hard to see that unless they write something.

        • reisbaron

          I knew I could count on you. I missed you.

        • Adam H

          Question for the owners: Why are the :00 classes still at 28th st at this point?

          This was billed as an experiment. So far there have been around 40-50 negative comments with 0 positive. The experiment failed. When you get the new equipment / full floor space / showers and locker room / sound proofing / new schedule / and all the other things mentioned in this discussion than switch back to 28th street and have another experiment. At this point it’s not an experiment any more, so where’s the wisdom in keeping it as it’s been the last 2 days?

          The only positive for anyone I see to stay right now is that we get all the complaining out now, and by the time all the improvements are made people are either tired of complaining so they accept it, or they accept it because they’ve forgotten what it was like at 26th st and are ok with the new setup simply because it’s better than the chaos going on right now…so I guess that would be a win for the people who decided on the move

    • Dee C

      I love your books…….

  • Dee C

    Since nobody bought this up, I might as well be the first— on the issue of safety. One of these day someone is going to get hurt. The place is just getting too crowded

    -I can see someone getting hit in the face while a CFer is whipping away on doubleunders. I can see someone lose an eye or worse, a pretty female CFer might get sliced in the face with a wire jump rope; thus leaving her scarred for life and nobody will want to marry her regardless of how fast her Fran time is.
    -I can see someone getting hit on the head during a KB swing.
    -I can see a CFer having to bail out on missed C&J hitting a fellow CFer in front beacsue there is not enough space.

    Just my .02 cent……………………………………………………..

  • Steve Slo

    Some of these comments strike me as mildly fucked up.

    I agree with most of the people on this thread that the
    overcrowding issues are serious, and should be dealt with in the short term
    (immediately), while the medium and long term solutions are put into place. But
    like Reis said, management has already referred to this week as an experiment
    with the hopes of producing a better outcome than the current status quo… which
    strikes me as a very worthwhile endeavor.

    …and of course, as members, we’re entitled to be vocal and raise hell about our dissatisfaction with the outcome…

    BUT… the one thing that’s been bothering me all day is… some people seem to be ascribing some seriously sinister motives to Josh, Hari, and Court’s actions (accusations falling along the lines of management valuing their money over the safety and satisfaction of their members). Does this strike anyone else as being
    kind of fucked up? Disagree with their actions… but don’t purport to know that their motivations are not what they say they are.

    I’m all for complaining; vocalize your discontent to the point of being obnoxious. I even think Kimbo Slice got a bad rap, and was bullied into shutting up (and IMHO it temporarily created a chilling “conformist” climate on the message board). But I have to think that the people who are accusing Josh, Hari and Court of looking the other way while people are being put in danger, all for the sake of making more money, probably don’t know Josh, Hari, and Court all that well… and so…

    I propose to Josh, Hari, and Court that they come to the happy hour event on the 27th and help disabuse any newcomers of the notion that they are capitalist-swine more interested in making quick cash, than in running a bad-ass gym.

    And just to make a long post even longer…

    1) I also don’t love the switch to 28th street.
    2) I think Adam H. makes a really good point about making it a priority to find a way to allow people to work on “goats” before or after class. The ability to do this at 26th street allowed me to acquire a number of skills that aren’t frequently programmed (GHD situps, Turkish Get-ups, Kb snatches).

    3) With regard to the lateness thing… fuck that… lack of punctuality is a cancer in this world.

  • Guest

    I find it very concerning that I have to sign up OVER a week in advance for my morning classes. Like everyone else, I have a busy schedule that changes constantly, if we are going in a direction where my workouts need to be booked weeks in advance (the next progression ) like making a reservation at a popular restaurant then this is a huge problem and hard to justify the premium we pay to workout here.

  • Court

    We appreciate the feedback we’ve received from many of you (read: loud & clear) and as both Hari & Josh have previously stated, we’ll be making all necessary adjustments with scheduling and equipment. As far as safety is concerned, one of the reasons we have different level classes is to ensure everyone is getting the training they need at a level they can handle. As a result, there is a fine balance in trade-offs with the schedule: we could have general level classes that occur more frequently but our goal is to provide the best possible training for each level, beginner and advanced alike. Our Elements program was created during one of the first waves of CF popularity when we opened our first box and it’s goal is the education and safety of beginners while preparing them to participate in the daily WODs. We could pump more people through each hour if we had no level classes but we want to create the best training experience possible. We understand your frustration and appreciate your patience with us (and the city zoning dept.) as we work to create what we hope to be one of the best CF facilities in the world.