Wednesday 131127

Please note that our Thanksgiving Holiday Weekend schedule goes into effect today. Details here.

All-levels WOD/Beginner WOD:
A. Power clean and push jerk 3-3-3-3-3
B. Back Squat 3-3-3-3-3

Competition Team WOD:
REST DAY.

CFE WOD:
4 Rounds:
40 sec kettle bell swings (24/16)
40 sec burpees
40 sec rest
40 sec thrusters (45/33)
40 sec situps
40 sec rest

rest 3 min

4 rounds:
40 sec knees 2 elbows
40 sec box jumps
40 sec rest
40 sec jumprope
40 sec pushups
40 sec rest

P1260850
(Photo credit: Alex Robleto)

Thanksgiving Holiday Weekend Schedule
Turning pro: 7 mind hacks
What’s your purpose?
Eli Manning’s footballs are months in the making
Comparison of 4 power positions
Kenyans chase down and catch goat-killing cheetahs
How 23andMe brought down the FDA’s wrath
Stoked fundraiser @CFNYC on Tues., Dec. 3! (Our Q&A w/Stoked founder Steve L.!)

Here’s what’s on tap for Thursday’s Thanksgiving Day classes (following a holiday schedule):

All-levels WOD/Beginner WOD:
Turducken“- A WOD, in a WOD, in a WOD- you’ll have to come to learn what fun (read: pain) awaits! HINT: Come prepared to run outdoors for part of the WOD.

  • Brad Hoover

    Dropped in again at CrossFit Saint Simons this morning. What a day and this was all in about 45min:
    A: Every 90 seconds for 15min: 3 power cleans + 1 push jerk. Did 125#.
    B: 8min AMRAP: 8 front squats + 8 burpee box overs 24″. Did 95#, 3 rounds + 5.

    C: Max reps in 4min of SDHP with a kettlebell, but if you put it down you do a 30sec bar hang. 58 reps 20kg kb.
    D: Max burpees in 2min. 41.

    • Matt C

      Personally, I would like to see more programming like this. Several of the other gyms I drop into manage to program seperate (1) skill, (2) strength and (3) metcon components into the 1 hour class. Just my two cents, I have no education or training in programming, so these formats may not be ideal long-term.

      • Zac Hirsch

        I couldn’t agree anymore. I recently went to CrossFit BRICK in LA and they had a body weight based class which was awesome. I’m a firm believer that consistent heavy lifting/strength training is not sustainable over the long run and it seems to be in our programming more consistently than anything else…

        • Matt C

          Well, I definitely want to keep the strength components. I just think on days where the entire WOD is 5×5 deadlift, there might be some additional time to add in a short skill or metcon component.

          • Zac Hirsch

            I agree. I’m just saying it would be nice for those of us that would like the option to train smarter and preserve our bodies over the long term.

          • Kyle J Smith

            “We firmly believe based on this research that progressive resistance training should be encouraged among healthy older adults to help minimize the loss of muscle mass and strength as they age,” Peterson says.

            http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110331163539.htm

          • Zac Hirsch

            I’m really going to open up a can of worms here. I guess I’m thinking more along the lines of recovery. I strongly agree with the statement you quoted above and the study you referenced. Heavy lifting is amazing in small doses. In CrossFit we have the tendency to overdo it by attending more than 3/4 times a week which doesn’t allow enough time for recovery. The programming is solid for the most part, but if there is a strength component in it 4-5 times per week most people are not allowing their bodies to properly recover. I guess the real issue here is most don’t know to utilize the programming and don’t understand the importance of recovery and/or active recovery. I love CrossFit, but I try not to let myself do it more than 3 times a week. Unfortunately, many people do it 5-6 times a week which can’t really be healthy if you are lifting heavy 4 of those days. The workouts we do in CrossFit are extremely taxing and recovery is such a key component. Most people think “working through the soreness” makes them tough which is what really leads to injury in the long-term by over compensating with certain muscle groups. I love CrossFit and I will do it forever, but t’s unfortunate it gets a bad name at times from people who get injured due do a lack of fitness experience/understanding.

          • Laconic Man

            You take a rest day or a few…that’s how you train smarter and longer.

          • reisbaron

            This is exactly the way it’s been in the morning classes, as we always have cashouts and lengthy metcon-like warmups that shorten the actual lifting time to 20 minutes. There has been no day with a strength-only WOD where we’ve had more than 25 minutes to explore the lift at hand.

            In 2010 and 2011 when the WOD was deadlift 5×5, we had 45 minutes after a sufficient warmup and movement review to actually explore the lift and truly see where we’re at with the given rep scheme.

            With four people to a rack and 25 minutes to work, the only work sets are really the last one or two. I’m not sure I agree that there might be additional time beyond what is already taken away from these “strength-only” days.

      • Laconic Man

        All I see is 4 metcons…

      • Avery W

        In terms of a progression, I don’t see how any of these WODs are related to one another. Then again, I haven’t looked over any of the programming for this box, so I can only make a face value judgement here based on this WOD alone, which maybe isn’t fair.

        There’s nothing skill, strength and met-con related in the workout listed above, as you detailed. (Unless there was a lecture on jerk or some aspect of the WOD prior to what’s listed above.) I’ll make the assumption that everyone in the class knew what they were doing or I’m betting not much time was spent in the way of warm up and instruction if this was completed in a 40 minute time frame.

        As a coach, I have a hard time fitting in a cohesive warm up, lecturing on the movements to discuss technical components, getting the WOD completed on time and ensuring that all my class attendees get some feedback during the class – in 60 minutes!

        The programming here varies on a consistent basis. Often times, the warm ups involve a skill (or include a skill and maybe it’s not blatantly labeled skill), there is a strength movement (generally barbell oriented) and a met-con that follows. Sometimes, it’s just a strength movement. Other times, it’s a longer met-con. Again – following that theme of variance.

        We could program the easiest WODs in the world so you could attend 14x per week or the hardest WODs in the world, where you should only be attending 3x per week and I bet we’d still get the attendance distribution that we currently do. Time and again, I hear coaches saying a) recovery is important b) working up slowly to a 3 day/1 off schedule is important and c) multiple sessions per day in the long term is not a smart idea. If you are training 6-7 days per week on top of other activities, training while injured, etc. no programming miracle or body weight class is going to address these issues.

        Finally, I’ll add that I don’t think the “programming for CrossFit” discussion is related to “how people recover/should attend CrossFit” discussion and they continually get mixed together in these arguments about what programming “makes sense” for a box.

        • Matt C

          Valid points. Makes sense to me, I get it now. This is why you are the coach and I am the student.

        • Moritz

          “As a coach, I have a hard time fitting in a cohesive warm up, lecturing on the movements to discuss technical components, getting the WOD completed on time and ensuring that all my class attendees get some feedback during the class – in 60 minutes!”

          I think it is possible to do all that, but not if there is one coach for 18-20 ppl. In addition, there would be more time for skill or strength + longer met-cons if we wouldn’t need to do two heats in most met-cons, which are usually capped at 10 mins. I understand that it is what it is due to the reasons which have been discussed at length but it is somewhat limiting the programming in my opinion.

          • Avery W

            Moritz, I meant that in a very general sense.

            Meaning that I don’t think the solution is more (longer) parts to the workout, which becomes the number one suggestion when the Programming can of worm opens up on this comment board.

            Time caps have their place, because we don’t want people to lose intensity with the given WOD. Time caps are also used in less attended classes (smaller than 10 people). Almost all of the competition classes have a time cap as a reality check about how long the WOD should take if performed well. If it’s taking you 15 minutes to do a met-con and we intended it to take 6 minutes, then the time cap is often the most effective way a person can learn to scale. Sometimes the community aspect needs to be reiterated. Heats give people a chance to watch/meet other members, cheer on their fellow classmates, or learn standard ROM if they are counting reps.

            Whenever we have a strength only day to focus on doing one thing really well and break it down into it’s constituent parts, we see decreased attendance. The frequent refrain is: Can’t we add on a short met-con? People are missing the overall point of doing a variety of activities (strength only, met-con only, endurance only, and a mix of all of those pieces) in various time domains (long, medium, short).

            Frankly, I have a hard time covering the material allocated for six people in an Elements class because I like talking about CrossFit, so for me this is not a discussion about class size.

          • Moritz

            Time caps are absolutely fine if they are used to keep intensity up or help people understand (how) they need to scale. What I meant is that in the last few months met-cons seem to be rather short (10 mins) in order to allow 2 heats due to class sizes, which in my opinion limits programming. don’t get me wrong, i am fine to have short met-cons, but i also would like to see something between the 5 min and 30 min met-con. And i would agree that on a 5×5 deadlift day, it would be ok to have a met-con after. On the other hand, i makes perfect sense to spend a whole class only working on snatches.

            Another point: I really like the competition team programming, and while i probably could attend the competition classes, my schedule doesn’t really allow it (and i also can’t commit to at least 4 classes a week for the same reason). The blackbox has a lot of beginners which is great, but at the same time requires to focus on basics. It would be great if there would be “advanced” classes beside the competition team classes

        • Brad Hoover

          Your first two paragraphs were spot on, Avery. The amount of coaching myself or anyone else received was minimal at best. Too, very little time to warmup for Part A. I basically had to put working weight on the bar and the clock began. Not ideal or appropriate.

          I didn’t expect my post to spark a debate, but it seems healthy and productive.

    • http://rockawayist.com/ rockawayist

      This type of programming is symptomatic of the newer boxes (and less experience coaches). Jamming three WODs into an hour may sound “tough”, but it leaves no time for warm up, skill work, or even recovery within that hour, and just encourages poor form. CrossFit has never been about “balls to the wall” for every WOD, but unfortunately this is the approach the less experienced coaches and boxes are taking.

      Working out at other boxes has just made me much more appreciative of the coaches we have at CF NYC.

  • Craig Bagno

    interesting. just an observation, for what little it is worth:

    if you tally up all the workouts for the last seven days (including kasey’s CFE) i think it comes out to seven lifting workouts and six met con workouts. it would be 7 and 7 if you counted kasey’s as two met cons. this morning felt like two. ouch. ;-)

    • Zac Hirsch

      This is exactly what I’m referring to in my post above…

      • Laconic Man

        Except what you said makes no sense. It’s based strictly on your gut feeling, which is incorrect.

        • Zac Hirsch

          It’s not really my gut feeling. Here is just one example below, but I can find plenty of studies and articles that explain training while you are sore aka not recovering is terrible for you. Active recovery is key and a workout as taxing as CrossFit can’t be considered active recovery.

          http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/muscle_myths_debunked/Never_Exercise_a_Sore_Muscle.php

          • Laconic Man

            This doesn’t support your point at all.

            “I’m a firm believer that consistent heavy lifting/strength training is not sustainable over the long run”

            So is your problem not resting enough -which is a personal issue or is it lifting heavy?

          • Zac Hirsch

            It supports my point by stressing something more along the lines of an active recovery type workout as opposed to something as taxing as CrossFit is beneficial when you are sore.

            I personally think lifting heavy and rest do go hand in hand. If there is a strength component in the programming 4-5 days a week and people CrossFit 5-6 days a week then they are most likely over training.

            All of this is very debatable. I think it’s difficult to say one person is right and one person is wrong. Everybody’s body is different and everyone recovers differently.I just think there is an over training mentality in CrossFit in general and that’s why people do get injured. The coaches don’t encourage it, but people naturally become addicted and feel the need to come in as much as possible.

            I think the best way to utilize CrossFit is do to it 3/4 days a week and complement it with other fitness activities that aren’t as taxing. Just my opinion. Def not saying that is right or wrong.

          • Laconic Man

            You could have just said:

            Take a rest day or a few to avoid overtraining. This is a personal issue not a programming issue.

            Also I’d like to say that your posts highlight why having an open forum where people can share their uneducated opinions is hilarious. “I think, I feel…..” “No one is right/wrong”.

          • Zac Hirsch

            I have a background in fitness and started 2 successful fitness companies so I do have some education ; ). I was just posting observations based on what I’ve seen and learned from my experiences, that’s all.

          • Laconic Man

            For the sake of your “business”

            Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt

          • Guest

            True words. I can agree with that. Apologies.

          • Bernard McMillan

            What are the names of your companies

    • Craig Bagno

      i’m not advocating attending every day. i just used the last 7 days as a sample size to suggest that lifting and met cons are fairly balanced. i think we just notice the lifting more, because, well, it hurts.

  • ilya

    Personally, I think the programming over the last several months has stepped up in a huge way. Hopefully as the open get closer our box’s programming will be adjusted so that we may be as prepared as possible. As for recovery I believe you just need to listen to your body. If your tired…take a day off.

  • Robert Gillespie

    From my experience, there is always people thinking programming should be changed. You simply can’t please 100% of the people all of the time. Overall I think the programming here is great. I have definitely continued to progress with this programming at CFNYC. Sometimes less is more.